Do rich people create jobs?

One multimillionaire gives a controversial speech saying that only consumer demand, and not the wealthy class, will help jobs grow.

By MSN Money Partner May 17, 2012 2:21PM
Image: Wealthy couple (© Digital Vision/Getty Images)Updated 3:30 p.m. ET

By Jonathan Berr


Sorry, Republicans, but rich people are not "job creators." They never have been and never will be. No one ever invests in anything to create jobs. Employing people is a by-product of capitalism.

Those are the views of the venture capitalist Nick Hanauer, a multimillionaire who was recently invited to speak at a TED conference. The conferences are well-known gatherings featuring talks on a variety of topics and can be viewed online.

Update: Initially, Hanauer's speech was not posted online, which spurred a controversy that TED reacted to Thursday. The speech appeared on YouTube Thursday, and you can see it here.

Rich people don't create jobs, nor do businesses, large or small. What does lead to more employment is a "circle of life" like feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion this virtuous cycle of increasing demand and hiring. In this sense, an ordinary middle-class consumer is far more of a job creator than a capitalist like me.

Hanauer added this little zinger as well: "So when businesspeople take credit for creating jobs, it's a little like squirrels taking credit for creating evolution. In fact, it's the other way around."

The views of Hanauer, who made his fortune as an early investor in Amazon (AMZN), are not that radical.

The Republican focus on cutting taxes for millionaires and billionaires is all wrong. For one thing, wealthy people -- ones with smart investment advisers -- know to put a good chunk of money in tax-free investments such as municipal bonds. Some also minimize their tax burden by putting their money in off-shore tax havens. If those people paid less in taxes, odds are that the windfall would wind up in those accounts. Few, if any, jobs would be created.

Another flaw in the Republican argument is the idea that the rich have an onerous tax burden. As The New York Times noted earlier this year, the tax burden paid by the wealthiest Americans has fallen significantly over the past few decades. Warren Buffett, among others, has made similar points.
 
"Between 1985 and 2008, the wealthiest 400 Americans saw the percentage of their income paid in federal income taxes drop from 29% to 18%," the paper reported, citing data from the Internal Revenue Service.

Income inequality should become the central issue of the presidential campaign. Heck, it should be the most important issue of the 21st century. I am not holding my breath for that to happen.

After deeming Hanauer's talk too political, perhaps TED organizers should change the conference motto from "Ideas worth spreading" to "Guardians of conventional wisdom."

TED curator Chris Anderson wrote a long response to the controversy Thursday, saying essentially that the speech just wasn't very good. The audience at TED that heard it gave it mediocre ratings, Anderson said. "Our policy is to post only talks that are truly special," he added. "And we try to steer clear of talks that are bound to descend into the same dismal partisan head-butting people can find every day elsewhere in the media."

-- Follow Jonathan Berr on Twitter @jdberr.

248Comments
May 23, 2012 10:18AM
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I most times believe the opposite when an untrustworthy Republican comes out with a so-called brilliant remark such as this. They only succeed in brainwashing more idiots who vote for them anyway. Most of them are so pathetically evil!
May 22, 2012 9:04PM
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Stay tuned as "News of the Obvious" features a glaring expose about the sun rising in the east...
May 22, 2012 8:04PM
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Many on this board have commented that lowering the tax rate on business will increase jobs.  One problem - it's simply not true.  Also, remember that many businesses, including very large companies like GE, pay NOTHING in taxes.  (The tax rate is a sham because of the many loopholes.)  They leech off the rest of us.  I'm a strong supporter of capitalism.  Our problem is that we have socialism for the rich and business and capitalism for everyone else.  Let the rich and business stand all on their own, just like they advocate for the rest of us.
May 22, 2012 4:22PM
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It's not necessary to keep rehashing the same ground. The CBO projected that the "Buffet Rule" would only raise 47 billion in taxes over the next 10 years. Even Buffet has admitted that it wouldn't get the job done. 5 billion a year opposed to a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit. You want taxes raised??? You just look at what's going to happen in Jan., 2013. It's political rhetoric, bulletin board fodder. Everybody will see 1 big increase in payroll taxes and taxing the rich won't save us. Everybody keeps moaning "Those damn Bush tax cuts". Well, say good by to them.
May 22, 2012 4:14PM
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So if you demand a slurpee a 7-11 will magically pop up on the corner?

 

Demand = Opportunity

Opportunity = Chance for Capital to rush in

Capital = Job

More taxes = Less Capital

Less Capital = Less Jobs

Obama = More taxes

Therefore:

Obama = Less Jobs

 

May 22, 2012 3:57PM
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Why is it assumed that rich people start businesses. Small business hires 70-80% of the employed in this country. That small business is the guy who runs the local card shop, pizza business, 7-11, gas station, etc. THEY are not rich. They are the ones making 35-60K. Is that rich? They are taking a chance because they want to work for themself. If there is NO DEMAND for there product or service i dont give a dam how much capitol you invest your business will fail.

 

Folks this is a DEMAND and supply world not a supply and demand world.

 

May 22, 2012 3:25PM
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Hey Mavre

Thanks for your comment.  Yes, I am very familiar with ROI.  In my business, I am the Capital Investor, so I am the one who has to determine whether the expected return is worth the risk.  And to determine the true return, I have to look at the after tax return.  I'm sure you would agree that taxes do, in fact, influence where capital goes.  Muni's, for example, are hugely popular because of their tax treatment.  Sophisticated investors seek out dividends and long term capital gains because of their tax treatment.  I'm sure you are aware of this. So if we agree that tax policy influences capital, doesn't it make sense to encourage capital to flow into business, rather than taxing it at ever increasing rates and thereby discouraging it?  Keep in mind, my point is that small businesses, not GM & Exxon, are the economic engine, and small business owners are the ones who are under threat of a growing tax burden.  Every time the tax burden is increased on me, it raises the bar on the yield a particular investment has to achieve, and therefore investments on the margin don't get done.  That means I don't hire more people, or expand.  This clearly reduces the potential for available jobs.

 

Regarding your comment on market studies to determine demand:  Oh, I wish it were that simple.  Just do a market study and voila you create a job.  A market study is only one factor in helping to determine risk and therefore the return required.  Unfortunately, they are not foolproof, or otherwise, why would any product/investment fail?  "Hey, I did a market study and it said I'd make a million, so why did my company fail?"  To a reiterate a point I made on another post, the demand (market study verified or not) only created the OPPORTUNITY for someone to fill the demand and therefore create a job.  This is the critical point - the demand, by itself, only created opportunity - not a job.  Someone has to risk their capital to actually create the job.  Of course, if the demand is misjudged, then the job won't last long and the risk taker will lose his capital. But what we are talking about is how do we CREATE jobs.  We need to have an economic policy that encourages the risk takers, not one that penalizes them.

May 22, 2012 2:04PM
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Wonder what his "SPIN" would be if he had not been "LUCKY" investing on AMAZON and made a lot of money.  What if AMAZON had gone down the tubes and he had lost his money.  I would bet this man would have been a "WALL STREET OCCUPIER".  I would also bet this man is not very charitable with his money.  Sort of like that ranting Biden guy, who made over $400K last year and only give a little over $5K to donations/charity.

 

As I have always said - "A PERSON'S ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN THEIR WORDS" - look at Biden as an example!

 

These people need to get out into the real world and see how many people are struggling with life these days.

 

Far to many people in this country are out of touch with the "REAL REALITY".

May 22, 2012 7:47AM
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A traitor to his class. A disgruntled one-percenter. Finally someone who speaks the truth! All these ceo's that pat themselves on the back are really at the top by happenstance. Tax the rich. Grow the middle class. Increase aggregate demand. 
May 21, 2012 6:18PM
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"Income inequality should become the central issue of the presidential campaign. Heck, it should be the most important issue of the 21st century."

This has been the central issue for collectivists/socialists for nearly two centuries. It's good to see that you are still carrying that torch. 

I'm sure you believe that you're creating jobs by crying about how rich people supposedly don't. I'm sure there are lots of people out there demanding your inane writings, too. Did they create your job? Or was it MSN that created it by putting out a job ad for political hacks?
May 21, 2012 5:30PM
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So let me understand this idiot.  If I didn't invest $10,000 along with some other investors in this company a few years back and now they have 15+ employees along with an outside systems development team these jobs would have somehow been created??  It is true that consumer demand would drive production and further product development, but still you need investment to start a company, grow a company, or strengthen a company.  WOW!!! 

How about this for those intelligent wealthy investors who have off shore accounts or do business in another country that has much, much lower taxes.   Lower the corporate tax rate in the U.S., bring the millions of jobs back to this country (Apple employs hundreds of thousands outside the U.S. to reduce their tax burden by about $200 billion), and solve most of our employment problems.  The problem with the Democratic Party is that they are more interested in punishing the achievers.  If they would spend more time creating policies that get people back to work, we would all be better off.

Kind of simple, isn't it?
May 21, 2012 5:26PM
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I have never been hired or know of anyone hired by a broke a**. But I do know of a lot of folks who work for affluent people/companies. But the question is "Did they get wealthy from the buisness? or did they have money and bought the buisness? My guess would be the hard work ethic alllowed them to make the buisness profitable.
May 21, 2012 4:30PM
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it makes total sense to me.  Just seems like you guys don't like it when someone calls you out on your BS.   When it's a policy designed to help the working class or the poor(god forbid we actually help them, cuz we all know they are just lazy bums that are looking for handouts!?!) it's considered socialism and a handout.  But when it's for "job creators" it's just so damn important to make it easier for them to make money and "create" more jobs, yet no one wants to use capitalism then.  If these small business owners can't create a successful business it's 100% their own fault, and it's because they are lazy and just don't want to work hard or because they are stupid or have a bad business model.    They want to hire people to do all the "work" and just do nothing and sit back and collect the paycheck.  Then if when they aren't making enough money(becaue they are paying themselves a big salary and not really working for it) they cry that there are too many regulations and it's too hard for them to be "successful" so you have to give us tax breaks(handouts if it was for jane doe).      Why when a business takes advantage of every single government assitance/program, tax loophole it's considered "smart business", but if an individual citizen does it he/she is a lazy bum who just wants something for nothing and is a drain on our society? 

 

Oh yea,  if these tax breaks are needed to "create jobs", then where are all these jobs since the upper tax rate has been steadily declining over the past 9 years??  WHERE?  Or can you at least point to some statistical research that can show a correlation between the tax rate of "job creators" and actual jobs being created...anyone, anyone?

May 21, 2012 3:47PM
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I've never gotten a job from a poor man, and I'll bet you haven't either.  Someone has to risk their capital (borrowed or saved) to start or expand a business.  It doesn't matter whether you are opening a road side fruit stand or building a factory, no capital - no jobs.  To grow the economy, you have to create an environment that entices capital to take a risk.  If you regulate it too much or tax it too much, capital simply seeks out a different place to go.  Small business is the engine of our economy, not the Fortune 500.  Small businesses are not owned by the uber-wealthy or CEOs making millions a year, they are owned by schmucks like you and me who work 12 hour days and are trying to figure out how to get their kids through college.  I own a small business, make over $250k a year and I assure you I don't feel like I'm not paying my fair share in taxes.  I have literally paid millions in taxes over the years.  Every penny the government takes from me is one less that I have to put back in my business.  When I have the capital, I spend it.  I hire people; I buy things.  Not because I'm altruistic, but because I want to make a profit.  I'm willing to risk my capital.  The more people I hire, the more people have money to buy other things and the wealth is spread.  30 years ago you didn't even know you needed the PC that you are reading this message on. Someone risked their capital, created a product and you said, "Yep, I need one of those." The "demand" was created because it was a useful product. And now we have millions of hi-tech related jobs as part of our economy. We need to be encouraging the risk takers, not taxing them to death.
May 21, 2012 2:37PM
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I guess my friend who trades his BMW every year for a new one is not helping pay for the huge expansion at the South Carolina plant. I guess he sholuld pay that money in taxes to support the people who are to lazy to get a job at the BMW plant. I guess I have this all wrong???????????
May 21, 2012 1:19PM
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 To: "Stoptreading"............Unions are not perfect, however, they helped create a middle class which better balanced the wealth and made this country what it was.   You need to pray for the return of Unions for everyone's sake, not fo forget your own.   
May 21, 2012 12:56PM
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President Zero has "created" hundreds of millions of jobs by his imagination,

Vice president Bobo Biden declared that the recession is over,

Senate majority leader Harry "Poindexter" Reid says that "old people love junk mail"...!!!

 

Yeah Jonathan Berr, keep on drinking the liberal kool-aid...

May 21, 2012 12:39PM
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Hanauer is just another example of an over-educated idiot that just doesn't get it. According to him, you give a useless parasite who isn't worth a hill of beans a wad of  tax-payer money and the parasite runs out and buys a few rolls of toilet paper and some drugs on the street corner, and that creates jobs...
May 21, 2012 10:22AM
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Supply side economics are exactly what the first President Bush described them as VOO

 DOO economics...cutting taxes results in deficits...dick cheney believed and advised his

boss W..that deficits don't matter...well we have found out the hard way that they do.....and

its hard to believe that republicans who call themselves conservative believe that in order to

put our fiscal house in order both the revenue side of the equation and the spending side have

to be dealt with...entitlements have to be modified so that those who do not need the money

in various degrees don't get all of it...and that includes medicare and social security both

of which must be means tested..it also means that the bush tax cuts must be allowed to expire

on everyone....those tax cuts were done while at the same time two foreign multi billion dollar

wars were started and not paid for...hardly conservative...Simpson Bowles understands the math

the current group of GOP congressman the 218 frogs in a wheelbarrow that John Boehner referred

to this past sunday doesn't get the math...in order to get back to where the US belongs we need

to come to an agreement on the fundamental proposition that you don't spend more than you

have ...but you have to spend on critical things that underpin any economic recovery including

infrastructure and education...that means that those of us who are in the top end of the food chain

have to pay a little more and get a little less

May 21, 2012 8:32AM
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Consumer demand creates a market and then jobs are needed to fill the demand.  But who finances the  capital structure, and working capital and upfront wages to satisfy demand.  No bank will give a loan to a poor or even middle class person.  Have you tried to get a mortgage for second home or investment property or business these days?  I am an acocutnant and have clients who are doing well and can't get loans.  Because the government and their rules and their debt requirements monopolized that.    So the financing is left to the venture capitalists who will require a certain rate of return for the risk on the investment.  if the ultimate tax rate is above 50%, as it is now, money does not flow so well.  What will it be when it reaches as high as 66%?  The answer is that it won't flow.  The money will sit on the sidelines, be in HY bonds that support existing, tired businesses that consoilidate, merge and eliminate duplicate jobs inorder to maintain their ROI.  If these miliionaries want to pay more tax, donate to the government.

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