From hope to hopeless on budget talks

We have to determine where the market can find firm support on a definite lack of real negotiation.

By Jim Cramer Dec 4, 2012 10:02AM

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Radius Images JupiterimagesIt's going to get old real soon. That's how I am starting to feel about this Washington situation. If neither side is choosing to negotiate in earnest on the fiscal cliff issues, then the market will have to reach a level where everyone has figured out there will be no earnest negotiation, and they aren't selling regardless.


Last week seemed incredibly confusing. On the one hand, there was plenty of talk about how a deal could be reached. I keep thinking about that comment from Goldman Sachs (GS) CEO Lloyd Blankfein in particular -- the one that said the sides were real close. How could he say that if it weren't at all true? Wasn't it based on something? How about all of those CEOs? Don't they make any difference? We thought they did last week.


On the other hand we have the perception that, if Washington was near a deal, something critical broke down -- because the positions got further apart over the weekend.

What happened in those intervening days, when the business leaders were hopeful and when President Obama went to the Pennsylvania toy factory? Did Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner misjudge things and play too much hardball?

I am thinking like this because it is highly unusual to see a situation go from hope to no hope in three days without anything really changing.


I have to tell you that, behind the scenes, the presidents' people are very certain that there will be a deal -- so certain that it's a bit daunting. Maybe that's what the business leaders were imbibing.


To me, the important thing is how quickly the complete transformation was made. This went from last Wednesday's happy belief that a deal will be struck, to a harder line by both sides Friday, to a total collapse by Monday. That last stage was on the heels of a Republican offer that someone would put out only if they wanted to end talks. Sure, I am certain some people thought Monday's Republican gambit had some substance, but to me it was more of the same.


Get that "total collapse" offer into the market. Figure out where there is no hope -- and then the market will have some firmer footing, which is certainly lacking right now.


JimCramer's face


Jim Cramer is a co-founder of TheStreet and contributes daily market commentary to the financial news network's sites. Follow his trades for Action Alerts PLUS, which Cramer co-manages as a charitable trust and has no positions in stocks mentioned.  



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Dec 4, 2012 3:12PM

Yup......That's what I was THINKING....Rev. Wright,runs America.


OMG...What the hell is that coming up the driveway.....??

Dec 4, 2012 3:11PM
Jim Cramer you are dead to me. Nothing is worse then a dishonest partisan. Enjoy hell.
Dec 4, 2012 3:06PM
Quick question - If people couldn't afford houses when the prices were way down,how is the rise in home prices a good thing?Doesn't really matter how much an EMPTY house is worth,does it ??
Dec 4, 2012 3:03PM
Either way, its going to be tuffer.  Inflation or deflation, higher deficit, more taxes, I wonder what our fore fathers would say if they could see what has become of their country.  I am sick and tired of Republicans AND Democrats, neither is doing a d*mn thing to really help this country.  I did not vote for O, I don't trust him, he has done nothing but lie, transparency, obamacare (the majority did not want), Benghazi.  I really think we will be a third world country by the time Bo's done.
Dec 4, 2012 3:03PM

From Hope to Hopeless............that's OBAMA's AGENDA

He is up to destroy Rev. Wright preached him to do!


A Revolution is coming.................

Dec 4, 2012 3:02PM
Screw the members of Congress the way they Screw us !   American politics has become a criminal organization unto itself ! The CODE PROTECT THEMSELVES THEIR FAMILIES AND INNER CIRCLE !  THEN SCREW THE AMERICAN PUBLIC ANY WHICH WAY THEY CAN!  RAPE PILLAGE AND PLUNDER IS THE AMERICAN POLITICIANS MOTTO !
Dec 4, 2012 3:01PM

Barack Obama fared well across the country Tuesday night, winning 332 electoral votes en route to a second term as president. Nowhere did he perform better, however, than in states that place the highest emphasis on education.

Of the 10 most educated states,  measured by the percentage of residents over 25 years old who have a bachelor’s degree or higher, Obama swept all 10. Conversely, among the 10 least educated states, Obama lost 9 states.

Here are the 10 most educated states, with those Obama won underlined. The percentage of residents over 25 with a college degree is in parentheses:

Most educated states

Least educated states

Massachusetts (39.1%)

West Virginia (18.5%)

Maryland (36.9%)

Mississippi (19.8%)

Colorado (36.7%)

Arkansas (20.3%)

Connecticut (36.2%)

Kentucky (21.1%)

Vermont (35.4%)

Louisiana (21.1%)

New Jersey (35.3%)

Alabama (22.3%)

Virginia (35.1%)

Nevada (22.5%)

New Hampshire (33.4%)

Indiana (23.0%)

New York (32.9%)

Tennessee (23.6%)

Minnesota (32.4%)



 Obama Wins 8 of the Nation’s 10 Wealthiest Counties

  Text Size

  Published: Wednesday, 7 Nov 2012 | 10:35 AM ET



In an election that often focused on debates about class warfare, President Barack Obama was favored over multimillionaire businessman Mitt Romney in eight of the nation's10 wealthiest And his margin of victory in all eight counties was greater than that of the national vote, in which Obama was leading by 50 percent to 48 percent with 97 percent of precincts reporting.

The findings are based on a analysis of Census Bureau numbers on average annual household income from 2006-2011 and results from Tuesday's elections.

The 10 richest counties accounted for 1,337,700 votes, or about 1.1 percent of the national popular vote.

In the richest, Massachusetts' Nantucket County, where average annual household income is over $137,000, Obama won by 63 percent to Romney's 36 percent with all precincts reporting. The richest county in Romney's home state is also where, just prior to accepting the Republican nomination, the former Massachusetts governor held a$75,000-per-person dinner fundraiser.

In none of the richest counties was the margin of victory wider than in California's Marin County, just north of San Francisco, where the president won by 74 percent to 23 percent, with all precincts reporting. In Marin, the average annual household income is $128,544.

The two richest counties where Romney won were in New Jersey: adjacent Hunterdon and Morris counties in the northern part of the state. Romney won in Morris by 55 percent to 44 percent and in Hunterdon by 59 percent to 40 percent. However, Somerset County, which abuts Hunterdon and Morris, went to Obama by 53 percent to 47 percent.

—By CNBC's Paul Toscano




Dec 4, 2012 3:00PM

Americans want a deal which includes higher tax for the upper 2%. The Republicans say F the 98% we made a deal and signed away or rights to serve the people.

Dec 4, 2012 2:57PM
The Republicans are doubling down take care of the 2% or we're going to make the 98% pay.
Dec 4, 2012 2:55PM

Actually Miss Lilly....Says most should be taken out and shot...


Ahhhhhhh, I languish for the 1800s.

Dec 4, 2012 2:52PM

NEXT TIME IN....Once again you have me confused....Please make it simple for us Old Guys..


And many of the others, that only have an eighth grade edcatshun...Thank you,Sir.

Dec 4, 2012 2:49PM


  Heavy cuts would cause deflation. The stock market would crash and the real estate market. The bounce real estate has came from QE3, All the stimulus money pumped up the financial markets. I don't agree with you. Obama wants inflation, or all the stimulus would be a  waste if we have deflation.

Dec 4, 2012 2:48PM

Delmar...That is beneath you...What are the rest of the so-called esteemed leaders doing ??

Trying to backpaddling, name call and pull off piddly press conferences..?

They LOST....


And now they cannot use as an excuse...."Gonna get Obama out of office in 4 years." 

About the ONLY agenda they had the last 4 years.....PATHETIC..


Dec 4, 2012 2:46PM

Does anyone recognize that the "fiscal cliff" represents $500B "savings" per year over 10 years.

This means we bring our deficit from (depending on which figure you believe) $1.35T to $850B per year?  So in 10 years, even with this "unimaginable" cliff, we will still rack up $8T MORE debt.


I am sure they will compromise at some point.  Obama's "plan" is to raise taxes $1.6T over 10 years.  The GOP "plan" is to cut spending and raise revenue $2.2T over 10 years.  Both plans lead to downgrades and default in 10 years.


Where is a "real" plan to balance the budget, ever?

Obama wants the Fiscal Cliff.   If he didn't, he would be in town negotiating instead of campaigning and playing golf.
Dec 4, 2012 2:39PM
As they say: "ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES". The majority voted for this. THEY asked for it and WE GOT IT.
Dec 4, 2012 2:37PM

I stated last night to friends that the ****s in DC will implement an 'emergence extension' on into next year until they can come to terms. More can kick-age.




Dec 4, 2012 2:24PM
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